Profile: Shamil Thakrar
Shamil Thakrar (1990, PPE)
Shamil Thakrar co-founded Dishoom, one of the UK鈥檚 most successful Indian restaurant groups, in 2010. He runs the business with his cousin Kavi Thakrar. Dishoom was ranked fourth in the 鈥�100 Best UK Companies To Work For鈥� list in 2021, ranking first in hospitality and leisure. This interview took place at Dishoom Shoreditch in September 2021.
You鈥檝e talked in the past about businesses needing to have a big heart. What does that mean?
I was new to the restaurant business when we started Dishoom, so I came to it quite fresh. My background was fairly commercial. Like many people out of Univ, I鈥檇 gone into consulting 鈥� most recently at Bain & Company. I had also been to Harvard Business School, and at Univ, I鈥檇 read PPE, so my whole inclination was to be very analytical about everything. As you approach a business, you probably have a template in your head about how to run it, which might include revenue, sales, cost, profit, the capital you spend and the return you generate. On one level that鈥檚 exactly how business runs, but a year or two in we had an insight that the best way to make the business work was not to focus just on profit but to also think about the awesome food and drink, great service and a happy team. If you control the costs at the same time, then the revenue and the profit that comes after that is like applause for doing a good job.
We developed a philosophy which we called Seva. Seva is the Hindi word for selfless service. At its heart, Seva is an act of generosity. We felt that all of us came into hospitality for a reason, which was that we like serving people. It鈥檚 part of human nature, we鈥檙e happiest when we鈥檙e giving of ourselves. At the same time, you鈥檝e obviously also got to do it to the best of your ability. For me, those two have to come together. I think that businesses need to be big-hearted and look after people. We work extremely hard to make sure that we鈥檙e giving the best possible experience to our customers, and our team. If we do that properly, and sensibly, then I think we鈥檙e entitled to a good return on the bottom line.
We found that when we moved the focus onto big-heartedness and making people happy, the profitability and the revenues of the business changed significantly. Sales went up massively. It transformed our financial performance. It might sound naive to a hardened businessperson, but I think that the more generously you give in business, the more you try and create value for the people you鈥檙e trying to serve, the more successful your business will be.
You鈥檝e talked a lot about being authentic; that you鈥檝e got to believe in something and be passionate about it.
There鈥檚 a lovely quote from Joseph Conrad in Heart of Darkness 鈥� I think it鈥檚 Marlow who says that principles are not enough, they are like chaff in the wind 鈥� you need a deliberate faith. I think of Jony Ive, who was in charge of design at Apple with Steve Jobs, who gave a lecture about the MacBook. More than caring about its profitability, he cared about the design engineering that went into it, and how beautiful it was. I think it鈥檚 really good to believe in something to make a living out of it. There are many ways up the mountain though. Different people have different business recipes. I鈥檓 not claiming this is the only way, but I think ours is a nice way 鈥� and there鈥檚 perhaps better scenery!
What advice would you give to our Young Univ entrepreneurs?
I鈥檇 like to think that really great businesses start with a feeling of generosity, wanting to give or do something for the world. If you鈥檙e motivated beyond the financial, if you鈥檙e motivated to give the world something 鈥� whether to your customers or to the team that you build up around you, or to the community via a charity 鈥� then you鈥檒l have enough passion to help you succeed. If you鈥檝e got something else that is driving you, you鈥檒l go that much further.
As an example, the way we work is that we write a narrative, a story for each restaurant we build. You鈥檙e probably not going to do something like that if you鈥檙e only motivated by the profit. For each restaurant, we create a kind of founding myth that guides every single detail of each space. In the story for this restaurant we鈥檙e sitting in now, in Shoreditch, we dreamt of an old Irani Caf茅 from Bombay that shuffles across the ocean and settles itself in a dirty corner of Shoreditch. By contrast, in the story of our Soho restaurant, we invented the character of an Irani from Bombay who comes to London in the 1960s. He comes to study something like accounting or law but because it鈥檚 the 1960s we find him becoming a songwriter, tripping at sunrise on Primrose Hill, or dancing at the Ad Lib with David Bailey and Jean Shrimpton. We find him with a telegram in his pocket, a sort of palm print of sadness on his chest, from his sister and mother asking him to come back to India because his father is dead. He goes back, and we imagine that our restaurant in Soho, on Kingly Street, is the one that he builds when he goes back.
As another example, when we launched our place in Kensington, we did it not just as a restaurant, but as an immersive theatre production. The story of the restaurant centres around a guy called Cyrus Irani, and it鈥檚 set in 1949. Cyrus is a cross between Rick from Casablanca and Carlito from Carlito鈥檚 Way, and so while he has a dubious past, he鈥檚 a good guy who cares. This guy has come out of prison, he鈥檚 got some money and he buys an old cinema called Liberty cinema. We spent time photographing every inch of the real Liberty cinema, and we鈥檝e recreated that in the restaurant 鈥� down to the cornicing, the lights and the panelling. I guess I鈥檓 fortunate because I like film noir, I like jazz, I like Art Deco, and I got to bring together all of these varied interests.
In the book, there鈥檚 a theme of finding ways to make new places feel like 182t福利. When you first moved to Oxford, did you have any cosy corners that felt like 182t福利?
When you go to a new city, the things that make it work for you and feel familiar are the places of comfort, the places you retreat to. I think the Chapel at Univ is a place like that. I used to sneak into the Chapel every now and again for some peace and quiet. And to hear a service or Evensong on a Sunday night was brilliant. It was beautiful. Everyone else was in the beer cellar at that time of the day, so sneaking off to the chapel was something that was quite special.
It was a real dream, an aspiration to get to Oxford, so I was really happy to be there. I think I probably settled in reasonably quickly. However, I did find the pace of the first couple of terms quite difficult, and I didn鈥檛 find PPE all that easy, to begin with. But then you settle into the rhythm of essays twice a week, 16 essays a term. You learn quickly that if you turn up for a tutorial and you haven鈥檛 prepared, then you鈥檙e in deep trouble. You can鈥檛 hide. That process of having to crack a subject is enormously helpful because it gives you the tools and the training to be able to crack a subject, more or less on your own, with a bit of guidance. For me, that analytical discipline was enormously important.
Did some of your creative interests develop at Univ?
I was working with someone a few years ago, and I was saying that I鈥檓 quite an analytical person who鈥檚 discovered creativity a bit later in life. And they said, you鈥檙e not, you鈥檙e a creative person who pushed themselves through an analytical training. I鈥檓 really grateful for that, because I think the analytical training is enormously helpful to be able to put things into practice and make them happen. At the same time, the application of creativity helps you enormously, and you can make things happen with all those analytical tools.
Are you still in touch with people from Univ?
Some of my most enduring friendships are from my Univ days. I鈥檓 in regular, daily touch with some of them, which is really nice. Univ was enormously bonding.
It鈥檚 interesting that the charities Dishoom supports are concerned with giving children food, and breakfast in particular. How did that come about?
Something else we really care about is bringing people together over food and breaking down barriers between different sorts of people. One year we were sitting around a table full of food, and asked our chef Naved, who is Muslim, what Ramadan was about, and he said that it was about depriving yourself, so you know what it is to have little, and it鈥檚 about the contributions you make. During Ramadan, you give a Zakat, which is your gift to somebody else. So, we decided to donate two meals that year, for every meal that we served in the restaurants for Ramadan, and then at Diwali that same year we made that permanent. For every breakfast, we donate a meal to Magic Breakfast, which provides healthy school breakfasts to children at risk of hunger in disadvantaged areas of the UK. For every dinner, we donate a meal to The Akshaya Patra Foundation, a non-profit organisation that tackles hunger and malnutrition among children in India and the UK. We鈥檝e donated 11 million meals so far. I鈥檓 really very proud that we鈥檙e able to serve in that way.
In your book, you say, 鈥淲hen people break bread together, barriers break down.鈥�
I think that when you break bread together, you鈥檙e less likely to hate each other. When Partition happened, and the British left India, there was considerable violence as a result of the redrawing of boundaries and the creation of Pakistan and India. In Delhi and Calcutta, there was enormous bloodshed. Bombay was much more peaceful. Part of that is geographical, but it鈥檚 also because of the cosmopolitan nature of Bombay, which is partly due to shared spaces like the Irani caf茅s. If you break bread together, you鈥檙e with each other shoulder to shoulder, and you鈥檙e less likely to be violent the next day.
We used to celebrate as a family a lot at Hindu festivals, and it struck me that it was really important to celebrate across other religions at Dishoom as well. So, we do big Muslim festivals and we have Christmas Carols. All of that was for me extremely important in bringing people together, which is what we love doing. The world needs that 鈥� for people to see each other as people, not as different tribes.
In your book, there鈥檚 a wonderful quote by your father, Rashmi Thakrar, that 鈥渇or something to truly succeed it must have a little poetry at the heart of it.鈥�
You鈥檝e got to find something that moves you, that you really care about, that鈥檚 not just an opportunity to make a buck. If you鈥檙e an entrepreneur with a mission, then I think you鈥檙e much more likely to make something successful. Fundamentally I think we make decisions because while our head has rationalised it, our heart has taken us there. Even the most analytical decisions we take are on some level emotional or intuitive.
What you have to do is figure out where you are unique, or where you have a different view of the world, and then nurture that. You鈥檝e got to find that way in which you perceive the world differently, where you can see the connections that other people might not be able to see.
How do you create a company people want to work for and attract and retain like-minded people?
Unless you really care about culture and looking after people because you think it鈥檚 important, you won鈥檛 prioritise it. If you鈥檙e just doing it because you think that will make you a better profit, then it鈥檚 pretty hard to do. I felt that it was important from the beginning. For many people here, this is their livelihood and this is where they鈥檙e spending their life, they have families, so suddenly it becomes a responsibility and you have to take it seriously. There are 1,200 people in the team now. And I try to spend a lot of time with our team and at least a good half day in one of the eight restaurants each week.
Over the past eighteen months, you鈥檝e had to adapt, and I read on your blog that you hadn鈥檛 planned to be cycling people鈥檚 food to them.
We have twelve delivery kitchens 鈥� and deliver in London, Brighton and Cambridge. I didn鈥檛 want to do it at first because I felt that what we did was about the restaurant experience, but in a business sense, the delivery is working really well. We then managed to get to a point where we were very happy with the quality 鈥� we worked really hard on getting the dishes out of the menu that weren鈥檛 travelling well, and making sure that the dishes that are left are really good. We also have a meal kit business 鈥� you can make a Dishoom Bacon Naan Roll at 182t福利 鈥� and we cracked a way of getting you to make naan which puffs up under the grill. It鈥檚 something that came out of lockdown 鈥� it wasn鈥檛 something we were intending to do before.
Is there anything or anyone else you鈥檇 like to mention from your Univ days?
I鈥檝e got to put a word in for Mrs Crawford, she was amazing. Some people might remember her as tough, but she has a heart of gold. And Bill Sykes was a massive influence: I did his reflections for three years 鈥� Friday mornings at 9am I think 鈥� with a friend of mine, Will. It was one of the most important parts of my College experience. It gave me a real grounding. Univ is a great education, our tutors were brilliant and PPE is a great discipline, but I think the pastoral and moral education was equally as important. Bill would challenge you and mould you gently. I think he was interested in Univ turning out fine young people who could contribute to the world 鈥� I have an enormous soft spot for him.
I鈥檓 really grateful for my Univ education. It was just brilliant. I鈥檓 grateful for the experiences of organising the Univ Ball, even the essay crises. A lot of the stuff that I learnt, it鈥檚 still very alive for me.
This feature was adapted from one first published in Issue 14 of The Martlet; read the full magazine聽聽or explore our back catalogue of Martlets below:
Published: 14 March 2022